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Kyle Anthony Williams's avatar

Ben's essay sounds great! I'll definitely need to find time to read it. I am given comfort that the current moment in the psychology movement isn't unique: it means we might have a chance to resolve it, especially since the issues discussed are not at all unique to psychology as a field.

I am surprised that the idea of *explicitly* making certain questions off-limits has never occurred to me. This is likely because liberalism encourages us to tolerate experiments that, say, don't explicitly disregard the moral law. But this is likely survivorship bias: not engaging in cruel human experiments, for example, is obvious to me in part because of how much it's drilled into all of us after the many mistakes the scientific community made in the last century.

If I were to go a bit further than Ben does here, I would say that, for certain questions, we should just cut out the middle man: our society has come to over-rely on science to justify policy positions which are really in the domain of metaphysics. Just because a policy proposal has a weak measurable effect does not mean it isn't the right thing to do or a waste of resources. Furthermore, basing important decisions on psych research kinda implies the research is *good*. Given how much the field has struggled these past few decades, that seems like quite the wild assumption! Of course, as C. Thi Nguyen might put it, everyone in politics relies on data because they speak across ideological and cultural differences, and opinions usually don't. Given that the open movement more than anything else values honesty, we ought to be more honest with ourselves about the limitations of our persuasive methods, and sometimes just have faith that people on the other side of the aisle will get what we're tryna do.

Nat Brown's avatar

The article you linked on Anthropology is paywalled. Why has public trust been lost? The public typically has little to no idea of what goes on in academic fields, which is an independent problem. In any case, Anthropology is a pretty strong field and has contributed some great insights recently. That's not any kind of general representation though, but I tend to think really good, durable work is uncommon in most fields.

I find Ben's post to be good, but seems to hold a very mainstream/institutional definition of both open science and social justice, which obviously affects the analysis and discussion. These are dominant forces, so it makes sense in that regard. All sorts of movements that begin in various outsider or radical groups tend to be co-opted by institutions, sometimes with good intentions but often little commitment, or sometimes because of their utility in symbolism. There's nothing about first principles open science or various equality/anti-oppression movements that are at odds. Nothing stated in the piece persuades me this isn't true, except at the level that's emerged in the mainstream. And, it seems important that people who don't know, should understand that real open science involves sharing everything done in research with everyone who is interested, and is not at odds with movements that aspire to all people being valued equally as humans. I will distinguish this position from the institutionalised science that takes place in our current liberal technocracy. That shit is threatened by all sorts of things long-term, and participants who domesticate one of these two movements for their own career ends will find conflict with the other. I suppose that's what Ben's piece is saying, just without acknowledging it.

Oh yeah. I get some sense of what you speak to in your first paragraph WRT activists. I'm assuming you mean aggressive progressives who are trying to impose change on mainstream institutions. Is that fair to say? I don't think they (or any person or group) have ideological, political or moral commitments of a special or unique status. They just conflict with the mainstream position, who hold power and whose actions are typically considered justifiable, whether violent or otherwise coercive. As they say, everything is political, which is particularly relevant when considering mainstream acts on a political level. I don't hold the same commitments btw, but I don't consider theirs special, or the mainstreams. That doesn't mean it's easy for these commitments to change. It's very possible for people to paint themselves into a corner in life, especially in this uncaring society.

No hate here by the way. Just critique. Obviously my background is quite different.

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