I have a loud speaking voice. At a large professional services firm, I was given an office despite not being a partner. People would ask: “why has he been given an office?” And then they would meet me…
Sorry Mickey, I have to side with your wife and neighbor. Were I your neighbor, I'd be tempted to take out my guitar amp, aim it in your direction, turn it to 11, and then blast away during one of your meetings, hoping that this would get my point across.;)
It’s not that you’re an asshole but, in terms of social ethics and public policy, quietness is the better value and the onus should be on noisemakers to justify their noise-making simply because noise is more intrusive than quiet — it makes a much larger demand on others and causes more net harm.
It is a major peeve of mine how permissive we are towards noise (I am in GHA and am mainly thinking of motorcycles, trucks, modified mufflers and leaf blowers here). An objective cost-benefit analysis would I am certain support much stronger limits and enforcement on noise.
The restaurant aspect of your story is important. If they have a norm of a loud and passionate place that’s great. It is a private space and may many flowers bloom (in private).
I think you are allowed to have your meetings outside. Perhaps wear EarPods and maybe even warn your neighbour that you will be on a meeting during such and such time.
The argument below that it’s peoples homes but an office doesnt fly anymore as so many people work from home.
The key is to be considerate and compromising. I have faith in you Mickey that you will find a middle ground. You are far from the asshole. But you’re still very loud!
I think you answered your question when you said "Yes, I can modulate my volume easier than my neighbor can unhear me". Then you want to justify that you are reasonable because the city is noisy anyway. Which does not cancel the fact that you can still modulate your volume easier. I started reading really outraged that she asked you that, but if you are that loud, maybe you could indeed lower your voice a bit. Note that this is still a compromise. You don't have to stop having your meetings. She'll have to deal with the fact that she won't have absolute silence even if she wanted to. But in this way, both of you end up a little displeased :) (even if both get what they wanted, even if not exactly as wanted)
I think a culture’s conception of private spaces vs. public spaces, emphasis on rights, and preference for negative rights vs. positive rights is interesting and confusing here. American culture seems to prize the negative-right-based norm of peace and quiet (as referenced in Xochitl Gonzalez’s Atlantic article) even in places open to the general public, like family restaurants. But restaurants are privately owned, so the owner has some discretion in setting the rules and picking the norms. Makes the response of “Please dear? For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint” to “Will you please lower your voices? This is a family restaurant” all the more hilarious and interesting.
I couldn't help but giggle while reading this. Growing up in Java, most people are loud and normal conversations can sound like two people aggressively arguing :D Now after moving to Germany, I realized that even my normal-level voice can annoy some people, which I found odd initially. In this kind of situation, I would generally ask myself, what is the general norm that most people accept in that particular place? then I'm happy to comply with that. If I'm in a place that deeply value quietness, I'll do things that way and keep my noise level to a minimum. But when I'm home, I'll definitely celebrate my loudness! :D
I have a loud speaking voice. At a large professional services firm, I was given an office despite not being a partner. People would ask: “why has he been given an office?” And then they would meet me…
Sorry Mickey, I have to side with your wife and neighbor. Were I your neighbor, I'd be tempted to take out my guitar amp, aim it in your direction, turn it to 11, and then blast away during one of your meetings, hoping that this would get my point across.;)
It’s not that you’re an asshole but, in terms of social ethics and public policy, quietness is the better value and the onus should be on noisemakers to justify their noise-making simply because noise is more intrusive than quiet — it makes a much larger demand on others and causes more net harm.
It is a major peeve of mine how permissive we are towards noise (I am in GHA and am mainly thinking of motorcycles, trucks, modified mufflers and leaf blowers here). An objective cost-benefit analysis would I am certain support much stronger limits and enforcement on noise.
The restaurant aspect of your story is important. If they have a norm of a loud and passionate place that’s great. It is a private space and may many flowers bloom (in private).
Shhhhhhh!!!!! You’re yelling!! (Love, your wife)
Also: I win.
I think you are allowed to have your meetings outside. Perhaps wear EarPods and maybe even warn your neighbour that you will be on a meeting during such and such time.
The argument below that it’s peoples homes but an office doesnt fly anymore as so many people work from home.
The key is to be considerate and compromising. I have faith in you Mickey that you will find a middle ground. You are far from the asshole. But you’re still very loud!
You and I know this best, Les!
I think you answered your question when you said "Yes, I can modulate my volume easier than my neighbor can unhear me". Then you want to justify that you are reasonable because the city is noisy anyway. Which does not cancel the fact that you can still modulate your volume easier. I started reading really outraged that she asked you that, but if you are that loud, maybe you could indeed lower your voice a bit. Note that this is still a compromise. You don't have to stop having your meetings. She'll have to deal with the fact that she won't have absolute silence even if she wanted to. But in this way, both of you end up a little displeased :) (even if both get what they wanted, even if not exactly as wanted)
I think it's waaaaaaay ruder to silence you in your own home. She needs to go inside. You're not having a rave.
I think a culture’s conception of private spaces vs. public spaces, emphasis on rights, and preference for negative rights vs. positive rights is interesting and confusing here. American culture seems to prize the negative-right-based norm of peace and quiet (as referenced in Xochitl Gonzalez’s Atlantic article) even in places open to the general public, like family restaurants. But restaurants are privately owned, so the owner has some discretion in setting the rules and picking the norms. Makes the response of “Please dear? For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint” to “Will you please lower your voices? This is a family restaurant” all the more hilarious and interesting.
Are you telling me I missed a perfect opportunity for a Walter quote?! Beautiful!
It’s an engaging discussion. I think it’s a “when in Rome” question.
I couldn't help but giggle while reading this. Growing up in Java, most people are loud and normal conversations can sound like two people aggressively arguing :D Now after moving to Germany, I realized that even my normal-level voice can annoy some people, which I found odd initially. In this kind of situation, I would generally ask myself, what is the general norm that most people accept in that particular place? then I'm happy to comply with that. If I'm in a place that deeply value quietness, I'll do things that way and keep my noise level to a minimum. But when I'm home, I'll definitely celebrate my loudness! :D
It’s a suburb, people’s homes, not an office. Don’t foist your work life on others.
I live in downtown Toronto! But your point stands...