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Todd Kashdan's avatar

Anytime I read anything about us ashkenazi Jews I can’t help but think how these categories are far more sophisticated than the lame single demographic question in over 95% of studies by psychologists who are supposed to be interested in human complexity.

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Glimpsing Integral's avatar

Yes, for instance level of development. Next level along different lines: cognitive, values, interpersonal, consciousness, spiritual. Next layer on different types (which can include Askenazi Jews). We are indeed complex.

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Mark Zohar's avatar

Do I identify as white, as Israeli, as Mediterranean, as the mixed race son of an Ashkenazi father and Sephardi mother, as a Jew, as privileged or as all of the above? In actual fact, I identify as a secular humanist which kind of solves this problem for me at a philosophical level.

The Midrash (Pirkei DeRabbi Eliezer), notes that Noah blessed two of his sons, Shem and Ham and their sons — who were dark and comely and dark like the raven — and his other son Japeth and his sons, who were entirely white. So, I guess, we can say that we are dark, we are white and we are everything in between.

בֵּרַךְ נֹחַ וּבָנָיו, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וַיְבָרֶךְ אֹתָם אֱלֹהִים״, בְּמַתְּנוֹתֵיהֶם וְהִנְחִילָם אֶת כָּל הָאָרֶץ. בֵּרַךְ לְשֵׁם וּלְבָנָיו שְׁחוֹרִים וְנָאִים, וְהִנְחִילָם אֶת כָּל אֶרֶץ נוֹשֶׁבֶת. בֵּרַךְ לְחָם וּבָנָיו שְׁחוֹרִים כָּעוֹרֵב, וְהִנְחִילָם חוֹף הַיָּם. בֵּרַךְ לְיֶפֶת וּבָנָיו כֻּלָּם לְבָנִים וְיָפִים, וְהִנְחִילָם מִדְבָּר וְשָׂדוֹת. אֵלֶּה הַנַּחֲלוֹת שֶׁהִנְחִילָם.

Noah brought his sons and his grandsons, and he blessed them with their (several) settlements, and he gave them as an inheritance all the earth. He especially blessed Shem and his sons, (making them) dark but comely, and he gave them the habitable earth. He blessed Ham and his sons, (making them) dark || like the raven, and he gave them as an inheritance the coast of the sea. He blessed Japheth and his sons, (making) them entirely white, and he gave them for an inheritance the desert and its fields; these (are the inheritances with) which he endowed them.

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Michael Inzlicht's avatar

That's interesting, man...

I love this! So this is not in the Bible, but the Talmud? I had no idea that the sons of Noah were both dark/black and white. So Jewish progreginbors (because Noah was not Jewish, that started with Abraham) were both Black and white. This is amazing.

I also like how you opted out of the question of whether Jews are white. I agree with you. I think it's all silly. However, the categories are placed on us; and the way we and other people use them has consequences for us, whether we agree with the categorization scheme or not. So I think it's a question we should at least ask, even if we end up rejecting its premise, as you and I do.

נעים מאוד לפגוש אותך מר זוהר. אני מאוד נהנה שהבת שלך היא תלמידה שלי, ומקווה לפגוש אותך יום אחד בקרוב

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Naomi's avatar

As a 100% Ashkenazi Jew with roots in Lithuania, Poland and Russia, I also have dark eyes, olive skin and a hooked nose. I have been asked my entire life where I am from (I am 3rd generation Canadian), and people are not satisfied even when I tell them my family's roots were in Eastern Europe. They only "get it" when I finally say "well, I'm Jewish?"

That explains to them "what I am"

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Michael Inzlicht's avatar

Ashkenazi Jews definitely have a look and non-Jews recognize this, even if some pretend we're white, not our own thing.

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Mallory M's avatar

Wonderful essay. And thank you so much for including me 💙

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Michael Inzlicht's avatar

I loved your essay too, as you know. We touched on such similar points...I felt that I learned a lot from you.

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Mallory M's avatar

Thank you, Michael! Same here— so happy to connect

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Emily's avatar

1. If you can't join the KKK, you're not white :)

2. "The social justice left has exhibited animus toward Jews they perceive as white, especially if they are incidentally reminded of Israel first."-- there is a lot buried here, but ultimately, I'd argue that the animus is actually toward all Jews, with some ostensible exceptions for Jews who can be anti-Zionist enough. Which, to me, looks like, if I can perform enough hatred of my Jewishness, an exception will be made. But I think this will begin to crumble eventually, too.

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Pete McCutchen's avatar

The notion that people of Latin origin a “People of Color” is a relatively recent development. Back in the 50s, when “I Love Lucy” was a hit TV show, nobody thought that Lucille Ball and Desi Arnez were Brave Pioneers for their positive depiction of marriage between a redhead and a Person of Color. Everyone thought Arnez was a white guy.

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Pete McCutchen's avatar

Why don’t you summon the ghost of Senator Judah P Benjamin and ask if he thinks he’s white?

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Steve Sailer's avatar

In the U.S., there has been a Flight From White ever since shortly after affirmative action racial preferences began in 1969. For example, on the 1970 Census, the white/Caucasian race extended from Iceland to Calcutta. But South Asian immigrant businessmen soon realized that East Asian immigrant businessmen were qualifying as minorities for Small Business Administration low-interest loans and government contracting minority preferences and they weren't because they were accursed with being called white. So by the 1980 Census, they got the Carter Administration to invent the new "Asian" race and lump them in with former "Oriental" race members. The Khyber Pass then delineated whites from Asians.

So, Yemenis, Jewish or Muslim, were still white in 1980-2020.

The Biden Administration has now socially constructed a new race for the 2030 Census -- Middle Eastern & North African. Presumably, minority DEI preferences will follow.

Nobody seems to have wondered whether Ashkenazis will qualify as nonwhite, even though that strikes me as a question with potentially world-historical consequences.

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Mia Ella Hirchberg's avatar

Census categories are fascinating.

related, I filled out a survey today from the Government of Canada and was quite impressed that "Israeli" was included as an example in the MENA answer option for ethnicity (it's a low bar, eh). Since they're not asking about citizenship/nationality, I select the MENA option. And I always select "Other" and write in "Jewish".

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